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Forum:2006-10-21. The Evolution of Arnold's character, by moonprincess1788
moonprincess1788, 21/10/2006 11:57 PM :I have been thinking about this, and it actually bothers me quite a bit. When you think about Arnold, he changed SO much between seasons 1-3 and seasons 4-5. :In the first 3 seasons Arnold was more of a risk taker, more of a normal 9 year old that like to explore and had an active imagination. He still offered advice and was a moral compass, but that's not all he was about. He had real issues like a real kid, and was not just a prop for other people. :In the later seasons 4-5 Arnold becomes quite the goody two shoes. Pretty one dimensional and quite the bore. It seems like he does and says the same thing in every story. "Stay positive" "Have faith" "Have you tried talking to them?" (I can't tell you how many times he says that line in almost every episode in the later seasons.) Arnold is no longer the risk taker. In fact he never does anything "fun". He just butts into other people's business and annoys them. He takes being a do-gooder too far. He sounds like a 30 year old instead of a nine year old. He has lost his daring and imagination. :Does anyone else feel that way? ---- FreyaGPataki, 22/10/2006 12:22 AM :It is a sad fact that Arnold changed alot. However there are still glimpses of his "childlike" curiosity. I mean if we take the movie, which had to take place inbetween the 5th season, well then, obviously Arnold had the guts to do something dangerous to save the neighborhood. And of course I don't wanna get into what he "would" do now that he's found the map in the Journal with the possible location to his parents. ---- moonprincess1788, 22/10/2006 1:00 AM :That's true. I guess I often forget those moments of "old" Arnold because they are so rare. The only season 5 episodes I can think of where he seems like the old Arnold is The Journal and April Fool's day. And even in April Fool's day he seems slightly out of character to me. :I know it has nothing to do with the writing, but it seemed as though when Spencer voiced Arnold, that's when the declining of the chracter began. ---- Pinkpataki, 22/10/2006 10:38 AM :Excuse the translation I do not speak English :Ok is certain much that Arnold change in those 100 episodes originally they were a dreamer boy, and was very amused to see the all problems that live in those first seasons :But always to the time the personages are having consistency, remember “Snow” then Arnold was young :Something different from “The Journal” in where Arnold becomes a “Small Man” remembers that he only lives with ADULTS, and who in their house do not allow children :I adore Arnold as he is, the dreamer boy of the first seasons or the small man of you complete seasons :Many critical say that this series is very good for the children then this arrives from good things, :I adore Arnold so as it was created :A full series of own personality :Remember when Phil said to Arnold :“For being a boy of 9 years he enchants to take to you to the world in your shoulders” Or something similar (Dino check out) :I believe that that never had said it in the first season :For that reason I believe that Arnold tapeworm 9 in first three seasons and 10 in other season : 4Ever Hey Arnold ---- Cool, 22/10/2006 10:49 AM :I know there has to be a super old thread about this subject somewhere, because I've hyped about the change in Arnold's character probably more than anybody else since it bugged me so much. I started to write a project like this in 2002, but never finished. Someday though, it will be done...hopefully. :Stephen ---- Manolo, 22/10/2006 2:43 PM :Well, I have never talked about this issue in a chatroom, but I think it's true: I have seen the HA saga in disorder, and I was very surprised in the first chapters, where Arnold has a lot of imagination, because I haven‘t seen that part of his character in the chapters of older seasons. :But then, I agree with PinkPataki. Arnold is a mature goody two shoes because he lives in a house without children and is accustomed to adult problems. But he was a very imaginative children in the first seasons. :As a matter of fact, the prototype of Hey Arnold, the shorts: "Arnold escapes from church", "Arnold Waltz", "Arnold rides a chair", made at 1990, heavily expose Arnold's imagination. :If anything, I think Arnold's imagination still lives on in the last seasons, if only in his dreams. In the fifth season, he doesn't daydream anymore, but his dreams in the journal, about his parents, are very vivid, and his dream of his marriage with Helga in "Married" is not only realistic, but profetic (in my humble opinion, is very romantic). ---- CarlinJ83, 22/10/2006 9:26 PM :I have to agree i do remember some episodes where Arnold was a little off. But other than that never really noticed it. So i dont what tell you. All know is Arnold is suppose to be a good person and feels like it's his mission to stick his nose where it doesnt belong. I mean look at Deconstruting Arnold. Where not only Helga but it was Harold, Stinky, Rhonda and Sid where they blame her for Arnold not helping when they were the ones atleast to blame cause not only Helga but it was them to which why get mad at her when they were in on it that's what pisst me off! Thank u ---- moonprincess1788, 23/10/2006 12:36 AM :I think it's an obvious transformation for the most part. Look at a season 1 Arnold episode solely about Arnold. Watch the way he acts. Then look at a season 5 Arnold. Always so preachy, not at all like season 1 Arnold. Season 1 Arnold was a moral compass, but he was also adventurous. You knew the show was about him. He had real dilemmas. Season 4-5 Arnold seems more like a prop or background character. In fact Helga takes over the show. If you didn't know any better by the title, you might think it was all about her and her love for Arnold. :I have no qualms saying that Arnold annoys the heck out of me in the later seasons. He was the best in season 3. Just the right touch of both personalities. ---- unluckystunt, 23/10/2006 4:13 PM :I always used to swear by the first season being the best in the series, but I'm in the process of rewatching the series right now and I'd agree that as far as character development goes, the show reached its peak in the third season. By then Helga had developed into a really rich character but it hadn't yet reached the point where she was too obsessive and always stealing the show, and Arnold was just the right combination of an average kid and a moral guide. The first season had a lot of good stand-alone episodes, but the characters hadn't been fully developed yet. Watching those episodes is a very different experience. I thought Spencer Klein did an okay job as Arnold. In some ways I liked him more than Phillip and in some ways I liked Phillip more, and I think all the actors brought something to the character. He could have made Arnold sound more like a kid and less like a 'short man', had the writing focused Arnold's character in that direction. Craig has admitted that the writers were having a harder time coming up with ideas by the 4th season. PinkPataki is correct that Arnold grows more mature over the series due to his living situation in the boarding house, the loss of his parents, etc., and that's definitely important to remember. A major theme throughout the show is that Arnold is the "center" that the other characters orbit around. As the show went on his role as a center/guide became stronger and stronger, until it reached the levels seen in Deconstructing Arnold (which I always saw as a self-parody of what happened to Arnold's character). Kim ---- epicpiefight7, 23/10/2006 9:31 PM :I agree with a lot of what has been said so far. Arnold's character undoubtedly changed, and he undoubtedly became more of a "goody two-shoes" as time passed. I also wholeheartedly agree with your comment about "Deconstructing Arnold," Kim. I think that episode has self-parody written all over it. :But here's something to consider: :As the series went on, we got to explore the Hey Arnold! universe more and more, with plenty of episodes focusing on characters other than Arnold. Take, for example, "Ernie in Love" or "Sid and Germs" or "Monkeyman!" All of these episodes star characters other than Arnold. As a result, Arnold's role is necessarily diminished. Instead of being the focus of the episode, he's just there to offer some advice and let the spotlight shine on the featured secondary character. This helps to explain some of Arnold's perceived character change. :Think of it along these lines: In a standard episode of Hey Arnold! - where the focus isn't on Stinky at all, Stinky is just a slack-jawed yokel. But in episodes that focus on Stinky, we see much deeper into his character. The same is true of Arnold. In earlier episodes, the focus was more on Arnold himself, and we saw all of his many facets. In later episodes, the show expanded to investigate other characters, and in consequence, Arnold just became the advice guru. (In other words, it's not just that Helga took over the show. It's that everybody who wasn't Arnold took over the show.) :Personally, I'm glad that Hey Arnold! had enough episodes so that it could really stretch out and show us so much of Hillwood. Perhaps this could have been done without weakening Arnold's character. Either way, I'm thankful for the episodes that we have. :^^But of course, this doesn't explain away all of the changes in Arnold's character. There's no getting around the fact that Arnold became a lot more of a wet blanket as time passed. Consider "Downtown as Fruits" vs. "Bag of Money." In both episodes, Arnold comes across a bag full of money. In "Downtown as Fruits," a first season episode, Arnold spends the money without any care as to the morality behind his actions. However, in "Bag of Money," a fifth season episode, Arnold insists to Gerald and Sid that the money be turned into the police station. That's an undeniable character change. ---- Cool, 23/10/2006 10:20 PM :Take, for example, "Ernie in Love" or "Sid and Germs" or "Monkeyman!" All of these episodes star characters other than Arnold. As a result, Arnold's role is necessarily diminished. Instead of being the focus of the episode, he's just there to offer some advice and let the spotlight shine on the featured secondary character. This helps to explain some of Arnold's perceived character change. :All throw away episodes in my opinion, perhaps with the exception of Sid & Germs. Like I have stated before, the fourth and fifth seasons had many throw away episodes - ep's that we just did not need. I read oneshot fanfics that were better and more true to the original seriers than some of the actual episodes on the show. Ernie In Love - Arnold doesn't know anything about women, lets face it - the guy is clueless most of the time and I think he thinks he somewhat of a cool guy (a la hanging out with older girls). Why would Ernie take advice from him? Plus I hated Ernie's girlfriend, had no personality. Monkeyman was just horrible. It was like a cheap knock off of Pigeon Man, which actually had heart. With the exception of Andy Dick playing Monkeyman, that episode was pointless. :I think there could have been more done to 'save' Arnold's character, but it seems the writers just good too lazy and it was easier just have Arnold give advice, and then let Helga take over. :Consider "Downtown as Fruits" vs. "Bag of Money." In both episodes, Arnold comes across a bag full of money. In "Downtown as Fruits," a first season episode, Arnold spends the money without any care as to the morality behind his actions. However, in "Bag of Money," a fifth season episode, Arnold insists to Gerald and Sid that the money be turned into the police station. That's an undeniable character change. :When I first started watching the show I noticed that right away. Arnold's character change was the first and foremost thing I noticed above all else. Before I really dove into the whole A&H relationship, it was the change in Arnold's character that got my attention the most. :In many areas, the show did peak at season three. Everything was perfect. Voices, stories, character growth. I espically love the animation of that season as well. The characters were cleaned up and looked great, and little details were always there (like the little thin white bottoms on Arnold's shoes I found a great detailed touch). As we ventured into season four, voices were replaced - most noteably Arnold's. Plus I now think HA! was one of those shows that just looked better on cell animation than computer animation. Look where the technolgy was in 1999 - characters at often times looked off kilter and sometimes ugly, the animation in movements and expressions became worse I think, and the color palette was way off. It should have stayed on cell until the end of season four, and perhaps when the technology became more stable, start of season five with it. By the end of the show, however, the computer made episodes came off very nicely. On that note - from the episodes on AE - look at some of the handdrawn backgrounds from season one. They add such a charm to the show - a true quality in craftsmanship, you can see the pencil stokes. :As stated on my 'Injustice' rant - HA! made a big turn around by the very end of season five with the last three episodes. Characters (and least I think) were right on the mark for how they grew over five years, and looked great as well (much taller). Arnold character was a perfect mix of his fifth season style and look mixed in with that first season competitiveness (AFD) and daydreaming (The Journal). The animation was supberb, and with the exception of losing two great voices (Sid and Stinky), the show was back, and refreshed with a new life for the 21st century. Those three episodes were made in 2001, and reflect that time period they were made in. I bet the show could have captured a whole new generation of fans if it had kept going into a 2001-2002 season of new episodes. But perhaps then people would state in jumped the shark, and it would be like having two completely different show (like Rugrats 91-94 and Rugrats 99-04). :I, personally, don't think that would have happened. :Arnold was such a positive and outgoing person. Where was he when he had to save his own show? Not even the highest optimsim could overcome what HA! went through by the time 2001 came around. A big kick in the ass - out of prodution, contract disputes, switching the two movies for TV/big screen, Party Wagon for CN, Craig moves out, an average TV movie (HA!) released at the wrong time with a very low box office draw, no season six, no Jungle Movie, no Patakis. Now a series completely forgotten at Nick and with most of mainstream America, only remembered in the eyes of longterm and passionate fans. :If only had Rugrats never came back into production. What would have happened to Arnold's future? One is left to wonder forever in that enteral question. :Stephen ---- epicpiefight7, 24/10/2006 12:11 AM :"Ernie in Love" - Yes, I'll agree that one was mostly a throwaway. (But it did have some good moments.) :"Monkeyman!" - Come on! How can you say it was horrible? It was a pretty decent episode. I don't think it was a knock off of "Pigeon Man." Yeah, both Pigeon Man and Monkeyman are outsiders with an animal theme, but they are different people. Pigeon Man is a loner who was too beautiful and fragile for the harsh reality of the world. He is primarily a tragic character. Monkeyman is a deranged superhero, a vigilante who's just plain out of touch with reality. He is primarily a comic character. There are similarities between the characters, but I wouldn't call Monkeyman a knock off. :"Sid and Germs" - Pretty good episode. Not outstanding, but still pretty good. :Anyway, I just chose those three randomly off the top of my head as episodes starring characters other than Arnold in which Arnold is mostly relegated to giving advice. The point of the post was to offer one possible explanation for Arnold's character change. My theory was that Arnold was often portrayed solely in the role of tame advice-giver in later episodes because a lot of later episodes focused on characters besides Arnold. Arnold was just shuffled into the background in these episodes in order to let other characters have their moment in the sun. :In theory, it was a great idea to explore the Hey Arnold universe so well. But in practice, it could have been done a lot better. I'm sure episodes could have been made that both focused on secondary characters and preserved Arnold's character and the overall spirit of the show. :On another note: :Look at some of the handdrawn backgrounds from season one. They add such a charm to the show - a true quality in craftsmanship, you can see the pencil stokes. :YES! Artistically, season one was absolutely amazing! The colors are so vivid! The animation just comes alive. There's so much spirit in the season one art. :And of course, regarding the Injusti ---- epicpiefight7, 24/10/2006 12:12 AM :whoops... to finish, I was just going to say: :And, of course, regarding the Injustice rant, RIGHT ON! ---- ioxmo, 24/10/2006 12:17 AM :Craig did say in an interview that "Deconstructing Arnold" was a parody on how he had changed. As for me, I was never much interested in Arnold, so I didn't really pay attention to how he changed. I really liked how the other characters were explored and wish it could have gone more in depth sometimes... especially on Nadine. ---- tonyd1983, 26/10/2006 9:36 AM :I agree with Stephen, mainly. I too have been watching back the series over the last few weeks (I have most of the episodes on video-I was watching the movie back on DVD last night) and I think that the animation was quite cold in the last season. Like you say Stephen, it WAS better when it was animated using traditional technology. The overall look of the show, whilst very alick, looked too dark, and lacked the brightness and happy-go-lucky look of the first three seasons. ---- Cool, 26/10/2006 9:40 PM :Like you say Stephen, it WAS better when it was animated using traditional technology. The overall look of the show, whilst very alick, looked too dark, and lacked the brightness and happy-go-lucky look of the first three seasons. :That's a very good way of putting it. It was like some of the heart had been taken out of the series, and it became the victim of ever changing and advancing technology. I can't recall too many shows that suffered as this result, but old style hand drawn animation just suited HA! very well for the show it was. :That's a good quote you stated - could I use that whenver I get around to typing my page about Arnold's character changes? :Stephen ---- CarlinJ83, 26/10/2006 10:00 PM :I have to say when is came Helga. Arnold was very clueless. Like in Girl Trouble where grandpa tells him well maybe the reason she does this stuff to you is because she likes you and Arnold's going that's crazy and grandpa's like come on Arnold wake up and smell the coffee and when he mention about her jumping rope outside the house Arnold goes yeah so she can call me names and then Grandpa catches him right there see that's my point! So Arnold was so blind. So that is my theory on it all. Thank you. :Carlin. ---- Cool, 26/10/2006 10:10 PM :Arnold grew very dense as the series went on. A dense wussy-wuss. It was pretty stupid. I'll forever remember Phil telling Arnold "24/7" and Arnold said what does that mean. Even Phil thought Arnold was a dummy - get with the times football face! Cheeze. :Stephen ---- moonprincess1788, 27/10/2006 5:21 PM :Arnold grew very dense as the series went on. A dense wussy-wuss. It was pretty stupid. I'll forever remember Phil telling Arnold "24/7" and Arnold said what does that mean. Even Phil thought Arnold was a dummy - get with the times football face! Cheeze. :I agree. I always want to hit Arnold at that moment. Come on Arnold!! Every kid that steps outside knows that phrase! :That's another thing about Arnold I hated as time went on. In the earlier seasons he at least had a brain. Sometimes when people talk to him in the 4 and 5th seasons he sounds like he understands only the basic concepts of a 5 year old child. "everything has to be rosy and peachy." ---- 39packard, 10/11/2006 2:46 AM :I don't agree that there's this drastic change in Arnold after season 3. Arnold has always been a goody two shoes. Take "Arnold's Thanksgiving", it's the typical always-look-on-the-bright-side ep. But it's fantastic. Or "Big Scoop" where Arnold wants boring, straightforward journalism. :When fans cite Arnold's wild side ("Downtown as Fruits", "Heat"), it's always from season 1 eps. But during this time the writers were still trying to get a feel for the series and the character of Arnold. So it's no surprise season 1 has the most variety and experimentation. :I'm not too sure about the season 4 and 5 "bashing". Or season 3 being the peak (though it is my fave season). HA! has a lot of run of the mill eps. What makes HA! special is when they get it right, it's absolutely spectacular. For some reason, season 3 has an amazing concentration of these spectacular eps. At least for me, the last couple of seasons have as many spectacular eps as the first couple. :There are a lot of forgettable season 1 eps like "Gerald Comes Over" and "Door #16". GCO is an ok intro for the borders but other than that why would any fan watch it again since he/she already knows the characters. There's nothing special about it. :Yeah, the 24/7 joke is unrealistic, but I still find it funny, I laugh whenever I see that scene.